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No solenoid juice

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  • No solenoid juice

    Troubleshooting my son's 2010 V6 manual tranny. Starter tested bad and was replaced, but now we cannot get any voltage on the solenoid line. If I jump it (bench) it does fire. Can't get it to crank in the car. Will test some more tomorrow, but access to the solenoid pin is next to impossible while installed. Attached a pigtail to test, but didn't have it connected properly. Pulled all associated fuses/relays and all pass continuity tests. Swapped relays, no apparent issues there either. We manually spun crankshaft and she's not seized (whew!). Tried both keys to make sure it was anti-theft codes being dropped or something. No change. Thinking clutch pedal sensor, but it looks to be moving in/out okay with no apparent damage (not that it's ruled out, but I see no easy way to test). Any other ideas? /frustrated.

    It isn't an official project until you've bled on it!

    M&M Member #33
    '66 Coupe C code
    '01 Saleen S281SC #648

  • #2
    You sure it was the starter to begin with? Kind of odd that you’d have TWO no crank concerns. Without looking at the schematic my next guess would be the ignition switch, maybe not sending the crank signal to the starter?
    M&M Member #91
    Ford Dealership Engine/Chassis Master Certified Technician
    US Navy submarine vet; Operation Iraqi Freedom vet..x 2...USAF Reserve...RETIRED, 26 total years

    Current 2003 Azure Blue Mach 1. All My Past Mustangs:'84 GT-5 spd, my first; '91 GT-auto; '70 M-code Mach 1-grabber yellow; '95 GTS-5 spd, Pro-Charged, totaled; '95 GTS 5 spd, replacement; '89 LX 5.0 'vert-5 spd; '90 LX 5.0 hatch-5 spd; '69 M-code Mach 1-4 spd; '90 5.0 LX 'vert; '03 Mach 1-5 spd, '93 Mustang LX vert.

    Comment


    • #3
      took the starter to Advance and they bench tested it. No response. Looked like it was in rough shape. There's a security module inline to check the chip on the key, and the clutch pedal neutral switch. I'm ready to tow it to the shop I'm so frustrated with it. Bizarre issue. Seems very young to have ignition issues. Sigh....
      It isn't an official project until you've bled on it!

      M&M Member #33
      '66 Coupe C code
      '01 Saleen S281SC #648

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by GTRocks View Post
        took the starter to Advance and they bench tested it. No response. Looked like it was in rough shape. There's a security module inline to check the chip on the key, and the clutch pedal neutral switch. I'm ready to tow it to the shop I'm so frustrated with it. Bizarre issue. Seems very young to have ignition issues. Sigh....
        A lot of stuff starting in about 2003-2005ish that has multiple inputs (PCM, ignition switch, 5 speed clutch), not just power/ground, is pretty tough to diag without a scan tool, proper schematics, and a lift.
        Without the ability to see what’s missing and where, it’s really impossible to help diagnose over the Internet.
        The only reason I mentioned the ignition switch is because we’ve had lots of issues with ignition switch/housing that’s on the steering column, in Escapes, Focus. Theres a pin inside the ignition switch housing that wears out and doesn’t push the pin far enough into the ignition switch to send the crank signal to the starter. We see it a lot, but I have to admit, never seen it on Mustang.
        Sorry I can’t be any better help.
        M&M Member #91
        Ford Dealership Engine/Chassis Master Certified Technician
        US Navy submarine vet; Operation Iraqi Freedom vet..x 2...USAF Reserve...RETIRED, 26 total years

        Current 2003 Azure Blue Mach 1. All My Past Mustangs:'84 GT-5 spd, my first; '91 GT-auto; '70 M-code Mach 1-grabber yellow; '95 GTS-5 spd, Pro-Charged, totaled; '95 GTS 5 spd, replacement; '89 LX 5.0 'vert-5 spd; '90 LX 5.0 hatch-5 spd; '69 M-code Mach 1-4 spd; '90 5.0 LX 'vert; '03 Mach 1-5 spd, '93 Mustang LX vert.

        Comment


        • #5
          So I finally have a conclusion to this painful story. We troubleshot the hell out of this thing. Neutral clutch pedal switch was fine. Put in a tool to test relay results. Noted ground issue at PIN out which led us to think that the security module was not sending the correct signal. To make a very long story short, we roll started it to bypass, and I drove it to Ford. I gave up.

          Ford called me last night and did 2 hours of diag work to find that the pin on the solenoid/starter from Advance was making contact with the block. The layout of the Advance starter is notably different than Ford's, and although it does fit, the solenoid pin making contact to the block shorted out (although strangely did not pop a fuse), and thus no crank. I'm going to have a very poignant conversation with advance. This is twice now (alternator on my truck) that I have bought their product to find it wouldn't work correctly. Now I'm buying Ford's starter and will take this POS back to Advance. Now I'm out $275 in diag fees.
          It isn't an official project until you've bled on it!

          M&M Member #33
          '66 Coupe C code
          '01 Saleen S281SC #648

          Comment


          • #6
            damn, that really bites when replacement parts arent up to the task !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and then cause more issues !

            Keith
            34 FORD coupe...Cleveland POWERED https://mustangsandmore.vbulletin.ne...ilies/cool.png

            it`s nice to be important but it is more important to be nice.

            Keith

            Comment


            • #7
              What really bites is when you turn in the old part for the core and you don't compare them side by side first. My late son did that once on a Nissan pickup starter, didn't think or know to compare them first. When he got home and tried the replacement, the solenoid was clocked wrong and hit the block, no way to reclock it. Took it back, the truck had already picked up the cores that day, no way to compare it, so they checked every Nissan starter in stock, all of them were wrong for his truck. Nobody had one different, or could get one different. He ended up buying a blown up parts truck just to get the starter. Never did figure out why his engine was different than everything else. He sold it while it was running good to keep from having more headaches down the road.
              ----1999 F150 XLT Lariat Super Cab 4X4 5.4----
              -----1947 Lincoln Zephyr Coupe 5.0-----
              -----2005 Expedition Eddie Bauer 5.4----
              " Sometimes you fix the car, sometimes the car fixes you" Steve L.

              "Do not let anyone tell you it cannot be done. No challenge can match the heart and fight and spirit of America". President Donald J. Trump

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm beginning to think my lesson learned is to start patronizing local junk yards more often.
                It isn't an official project until you've bled on it!

                M&M Member #33
                '66 Coupe C code
                '01 Saleen S281SC #648

                Comment


                • #9
                  So I swapped out the Advance Starter with the Ford OEM starter. Poles are definitely in a different location, but I still get no joy. Guessing I fried something. I did find a blown 30A fuse, which I swapped out with the seat motor fuse (same Amperage), but 0 Volts down the solenoid line. I'm losing my mind. Could be a fusable link? I just have no idea where to find it to test it. Google is not my friend tonight.

                  I went through every fuse in the circuit (I think) and did a continuity test. All the other fuses seem to be ok. Already dropped $500 with Ford. Sigh....
                  It isn't an official project until you've bled on it!

                  M&M Member #33
                  '66 Coupe C code
                  '01 Saleen S281SC #648

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Seems the only fusable link is between the battery and the alternator and not in the starter circuit. Still no voltage to the solenoid. I traced the solenoid line back to the fuse box as far as I could. Seems there are two different connectors right on the passenger shock tower that the line goes through; neither show any voltage for that line with key in start position. Neither seem to be any kind of fuse though. I need to get a relay tester, but I swapped the relays around so it shouldn't be a relay issue (all the relays are the same). Also checked the pertinent fuses in the cabin, and all pass a continuity test. Neutral switch clutch pedal seems to be operating correctly. I'm quite frustrated at this point. Any ideas?
                    It isn't an official project until you've bled on it!

                    M&M Member #33
                    '66 Coupe C code
                    '01 Saleen S281SC #648

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I hate these electrical problems
                      I dont know anything about the newer cars but are you sure the ignition switch is sending power out when in start position ?
                      I know , a real stab in the dark....................................

                      Keith
                      34 FORD coupe...Cleveland POWERED https://mustangsandmore.vbulletin.ne...ilies/cool.png

                      it`s nice to be important but it is more important to be nice.

                      Keith

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Got to be either the key switch or the clutch switch, or in between them somewhere. It has a push on blade terminal at the starter for the start power doesn't it? I'd start right there first, check with a jumper wire to the battery from the starter blade terminal, it should crank over. Next, I'd check the wire from the starter back to the clutch switch by putting power on it at the starter end, checking the firewall connection and then checking both sides of the clutch switch for power. If that checks to have power, your next place to check is between the clutch pedal switch and the column connector. Last place would be from column connector to key switch, which is actually a sliding type switch. If you lose power between any of those points, there will be your problem area. The sliding switch could have slipped and not be letting the contacts connect for start, yet still making good enough connection to run. They sometimes lose adjustment with age.
                        For a work around so you can drive it, you can run a new wire from the starter back to a heavy push button. Turn the key on, hit the button, and go.
                        ----1999 F150 XLT Lariat Super Cab 4X4 5.4----
                        -----1947 Lincoln Zephyr Coupe 5.0-----
                        -----2005 Expedition Eddie Bauer 5.4----
                        " Sometimes you fix the car, sometimes the car fixes you" Steve L.

                        "Do not let anyone tell you it cannot be done. No challenge can match the heart and fight and spirit of America". President Donald J. Trump

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Not a blade. It bolts on. I have 12V down that line. I just can't get voltage to the solenoid. The solenoid (attached to the starter) should get voltage then close the relay to connect the starter. Can't get that control signal down the solenoid line. Tested the neutral clutch switch with an ohmeter, and it seems to be working correctly.I traced the solenoid line back to the fuse panel and there's zero volts there too. Something's not right at either the PCM or the fuse panel. I continuity tested every fuse in the circuit. They're all good. It acts as if it's a fuse, but damned if I can find it. The fusable link on this car is between the alternator and the battery, so it's not even in the chain. Sigh...

                          I can push start it. That's what we've been doing when we need to move it.
                          It isn't an official project until you've bled on it!

                          M&M Member #33
                          '66 Coupe C code
                          '01 Saleen S281SC #648

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I forgot about the solenoid {relay} on the firewall or fender. Are you getting current to it, but not down to the starter mounted solenoid?
                            ----1999 F150 XLT Lariat Super Cab 4X4 5.4----
                            -----1947 Lincoln Zephyr Coupe 5.0-----
                            -----2005 Expedition Eddie Bauer 5.4----
                            " Sometimes you fix the car, sometimes the car fixes you" Steve L.

                            "Do not let anyone tell you it cannot be done. No challenge can match the heart and fight and spirit of America". President Donald J. Trump

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              There is no solenoid on the firewall. The line comes from the fuse panel, through two different connectors (for unknown reason), and then down to the solenoid which is attached to the starter (one unit). There appears to be no voltage at the first connector, which would imply no voltage coming from the fuse panel. I, unfortunately, don't have a relay tester, so I'm unsure of the voltages at the relay. Went around town yesterday trying to find one unsuccessfully. Advance deems that a specialized piece of equipment.
                              It isn't an official project until you've bled on it!

                              M&M Member #33
                              '66 Coupe C code
                              '01 Saleen S281SC #648

                              Comment

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