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Another ladder bar question

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  • Another ladder bar question

    I didn't want to hi-jack the other ladder bar post, so I started a new one. Over the winter, we installed a S&W ladder bar kit on my truck. S&W recommended a starting point of the bars parallel to the ground and in the 2nd hole from the bottom. For the guys with ladder bars, does that sound about right or should I start somewhere else? I'm guessing the truck is going to react differently than a car since the weight is probably more biased towards the front.

    As for rest of the components, there are single adjustable QA1 coilovers on the rear with 175# springs, 325/50r-15 M/T Drag Radials, c6 trans w/5000 rpm converter and NO transbrake this year. Front is Eibach drag launch Fox body springs and Strange Eng double adjustable shocks.

    Also, I have the Dave Morgan Door Slammer book and in there he recommends preloading the right side like 1/2-1 full bolt hole (I think thats what I read, but I can recheck). Do you guys normally do that?
    1994 Lightning "Pro Street"
    *Old Combo* 408c CHI 3V 225cc Heads, 3v Intake, Dave Storlien solid roller, Rollerized c6, UCC 6,000 rpm converter, Merkl Racing 'brake, AJE k-member front suspension, and Outlaw 4 link with Koni da coilovers.
    715hp and 604 ft lbs @ the flywheel on pump gas.
    6.50@106.63 1/8th
    10.38@126.9 1/4
    1994 Lightning 408c 3v

  • #2
    i had Mr.Morgan for a suspension class here at the University of Northwestern Ohio ( High performance motorsports) and honestly.. he is a genious lol. i dont know what kind of horse power you have but for the most part you cant really go wrong by setting everything even to start. it would be best if you had access to a 4 corner scale so you can set the weights at the back tires even via adjusting the bars. ( where you said preload 1/2 - 1 bolt hole. that should be 1/2- 1 turn on the adjuster. ) But if you have scales id start with both rear weights even and go from there. He told us with ladder bars preload really is not much of an issue unless your trying to hook up a 9-low 10 second car on ladder bars.

    watching how all 4 weights change just by turning the lower driverside adjuster is amazing. the weight that you put on to that tire adversaly affects every corner of the car.
    Johnny Gray's nitro funny car!unk:

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks, a buddy of mine does have 4 scales and we intend on weighing the truck once the engine is back in and everything else is done. I'll have to make sure set up the rear suspension on the scales so the rear tire weight is equal. That is with me sitting in the drivers seat, correct?

      As for power, it'd venture to guess it'll be in the 600hp area at the flywheel.
      1994 Lightning "Pro Street"
      *Old Combo* 408c CHI 3V 225cc Heads, 3v Intake, Dave Storlien solid roller, Rollerized c6, UCC 6,000 rpm converter, Merkl Racing 'brake, AJE k-member front suspension, and Outlaw 4 link with Koni da coilovers.
      715hp and 604 ft lbs @ the flywheel on pump gas.
      6.50@106.63 1/8th
      10.38@126.9 1/4
      1994 Lightning 408c 3v

      Comment


      • #4
        ya, have everything as if you were on the track. if you actually want to be the one doing the adjusting either have a buddy who is very close in weight or find stuff to stick in the drivers seat that weigh the same as you.
        Johnny Gray's nitro funny car!unk:

        Comment


        • #5
          If you can put it on wheel scales before taking it to the track, you should be really close right off the trailer. One thing to realize though, if you put some preload in it, it will pull slightly when you drive around in the pits, but when at WOT, it will go straight. I have a couple of flats of preload in mine, and it pulls slightly when driving around the pits. But without the preload, when it picks the front wheels up, it wont go straight.

          Once you get it set where it leaves the way you like, paint a white line on the adjuster and make sure it includes the lock nuts. That way if something changes in the way it leaves, you can quickly look and see if a lock nut came loose and the adjuster moved (I didn't get mine tight enough one time, and each succeeding pass, the car left more crooked each time.)
          Rob Hetzler
          M&M member since Oct 2000, #773
          Roxboro Dragway 2011 Top ET champion

          My Photo Page

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks guys this is some good advice we will be settin it up on the scales i own for setting up our circle track car and can vouch for the fact that one little change even 1/2 of stager or 1" of offset in a wheel can affect all 4 corners. If this ladder bar setup works i think were gonna build a frame to use as subframe connectors and a cross bar and i'm goin to do away with my leaf springs and put ladder bars in my 70 coupe as well. I should be around 600-650hp with my 438 windsor!! This year should be fun if i ever get mine done.:hammer:
            1970 mustang coupe restored with the help of my dad and lots of friends, 306, 480hp/392ft torque n/a pump gas, magnum T-56, 5.14's

            Comment


            • #7
              lol when we did my car we just set it up to what we thought was close/right in the garage and i dont know if i just grew to the car or what(it seemed to go straight at the time) but i ran it for a season and a half or so. but when i took it in to class with Mr. Morgan i disccovered i had like 150lbs of negative preload.. or 150lbs more on the drivers tire than the passenger. now its not a fast violent leaving car yet, but i did notice for a few runs after that i was having to pay attention to stay straight where i must have grown to the car wanting to pull so then when it didnt pull anymore i was still trying to correct for it.
              Johnny Gray's nitro funny car!unk:

              Comment


              • #8
                Get your motor back together?

                Get your motor back together. last post I seen was you had some issues with the crank maybe? Hopping to get my car done in the next couple months. Waiting on the heads and intake. Dropping off the block this friday.

                Comment


                • #9
                  His motor isn't together yet, i got it at the machine shop getting main studs and a line hone, we had some thrust bearing issues we believe were caused by the converter and signs of cap walk again.
                  1970 mustang coupe restored with the help of my dad and lots of friends, 306, 480hp/392ft torque n/a pump gas, magnum T-56, 5.14's

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yeah, unfortunitally, its not together yet. Hopefully it will be going on the engine dyno in a little over a month. Found out that the Art Carr t-brake vb I was using didn't have a check ball in it to bleed off pressure when the 'brake was applied. So the pressure just built up and tried to push the converter out of the trans, so that put huge loads on the backside thrust bearing. Ending up chewing it up and possibly pushing on the cap too. Also think I had some inadequate oil quality issues and that might've help contribute to things. But it'll be back to the track soon.

                    Dave, do you ever go to Grove Creek Raceway? If so, I'll have to meet ya there sometime.
                    1994 Lightning "Pro Street"
                    *Old Combo* 408c CHI 3V 225cc Heads, 3v Intake, Dave Storlien solid roller, Rollerized c6, UCC 6,000 rpm converter, Merkl Racing 'brake, AJE k-member front suspension, and Outlaw 4 link with Koni da coilovers.
                    715hp and 604 ft lbs @ the flywheel on pump gas.
                    6.50@106.63 1/8th
                    10.38@126.9 1/4
                    1994 Lightning 408c 3v

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      been along time, but I have been to grove.

                      That would be fun. Just depends how long it takes to get my motor back together. Since my roller cam ate the lifter. I got turned off by Solid roller cams and with family and all. I wanted something I would not have to work on as much, but use pump gas and make the same horsepower as my old motor. I found the chi website and talked with Dave Storlien. Going to follow the pump gas terror combo. http://www.chiheads.com/our_results.php with a hydro cam. I did buy the Chi heads and intake. They should get here around the end of may. Then its just put together and hit the dyno for results.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Where are you getting it dynoed at? Picked a good set of heads. Those 185cc EM heads should be awsome torque heads and get you out of the hole quick but still have plenty of flow on the top end.

                        I ended up selling my stuffed 4v's, Funnelweb, and hyd roller cam and picked up a new combo. I went with CHI 225cc 3v heads, matching 3v intake, and a solid roller from Scotty @ RHP. I'm guessing it should wake it up a little bit more.
                        1994 Lightning "Pro Street"
                        *Old Combo* 408c CHI 3V 225cc Heads, 3v Intake, Dave Storlien solid roller, Rollerized c6, UCC 6,000 rpm converter, Merkl Racing 'brake, AJE k-member front suspension, and Outlaw 4 link with Koni da coilovers.
                        715hp and 604 ft lbs @ the flywheel on pump gas.
                        6.50@106.63 1/8th
                        10.38@126.9 1/4
                        1994 Lightning 408c 3v

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          your motor is going to be a monster!!

                          Nice combo!! What are you hopping to run with it? With the 185's im hoping for low 12's maybe high 11's. Dont need to be any faster for me.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I have no idea what it will run in the quarter. In the 1/8, I'm hoping for mid to low 7's. I'd guess that would be low 12's in the quarter? Have to see how much better the truck hooks with the suspesions mods compared to last year.
                            1994 Lightning "Pro Street"
                            *Old Combo* 408c CHI 3V 225cc Heads, 3v Intake, Dave Storlien solid roller, Rollerized c6, UCC 6,000 rpm converter, Merkl Racing 'brake, AJE k-member front suspension, and Outlaw 4 link with Koni da coilovers.
                            715hp and 604 ft lbs @ the flywheel on pump gas.
                            6.50@106.63 1/8th
                            10.38@126.9 1/4
                            1994 Lightning 408c 3v

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              with your old 1/8 mile time

                              using this convertor from 1/8 to 1/4 it says your truck would have run 12.40 with the old motor. http://www.empirenet.com/pkelley2/eight-to-quarter.htm

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