Brought to you in part by:
Thirteen Years!

...

Nineteen Years!
.

Click here to see a list of our Supporters.
  • If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Almost ready for the dyno!

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Well, finally got to run the car at the track and not very impressed at all. Still have a lot of work to do on the launch. First pass was real soft and went back and put a turn and a half in the clutch and was much happier but still not where I think it should be. We where at 2,700 DA and only got to make a few test passes. Best run was 1.41 60', 10.11 @ 133mph . Still can't stand this carb and haven't had time to do anything about it. Actually got real lucky on my second pass. I went to do my burnout and the line lock didn't work. It should have clicked in my head but it didn't....the fuse was blown. That same circuit is tied to my 2 step relay so you guessed it, no 2 step either. I went up and staged, tree comes down and floor it, went on the high chip! Actually launched pretty good but went back and hit the recall on the tach...8,900.
    1965 Poppy Red Three Peddle Gear Banger
    347 Stock Block Pump Gas Street/Strip 10.44 @ 125.97 Old Combo
    363 Dart Block Pump Gas Street/Strip - 10.11 @ 133.17 so far

    2005 Torch Red Topless Three Peddle 12 valve Monster
    244 Stock Block Pump Gas Street /Street Much Slower


    Current CI Count - 104

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Poppy65 View Post
      Well, finally got to run the car at the track and not very impressed at all. Still have a lot of work to do on the launch. First pass was real soft and went back and put a turn and a half in the clutch and was much happier but still not where I think it should be. We where at 2,700 DA and only got to make a few test passes. Best run was 1.41 60', 10.11 @ 133mph . Still can't stand this carb and haven't had time to do anything about it. Actually got real lucky on my second pass. I went to do my burnout and the line lock didn't work. It should have clicked in my head but it didn't....the fuse was blown. That same circuit is tied to my 2 step relay so you guessed it, no 2 step either. I went up and staged, tree comes down and floor it, went on the high chip! Actually launched pretty good but went back and hit the recall on the tach...8,900.
      I don't know your previous setup but I'd say it ran very well for the first time out in that air.
      Dennis

      65' STANG Street/Strip

      434W NA, Victor Heads, Super Vic Intake, Bullet SR, Braswell Carb, 11.2:1, Gforce 4 Spd, 4:56, 93 Octane Pump Gas pushing 3550lbs. 9.66@140.65

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Dennis112 View Post

        I don't know your previous setup but I'd say it ran very well for the first time out in that air.
        Previous best 1.44 60' 10.44 @ 125 mph with 500hp. Picked up 90 hp and 30 lbs of torque but only 3 tenths, that's the downer. Yes, the air sucked and the car picked up almost 50lbs with the difference in block weight but...........Was hoping for 5 tenths.
        1965 Poppy Red Three Peddle Gear Banger
        347 Stock Block Pump Gas Street/Strip 10.44 @ 125.97 Old Combo
        363 Dart Block Pump Gas Street/Strip - 10.11 @ 133.17 so far

        2005 Torch Red Topless Three Peddle 12 valve Monster
        244 Stock Block Pump Gas Street /Street Much Slower


        Current CI Count - 104

        Comment


        • #19
          The 8mph increase shows that you gained the HP. I'd say now its a matter of putting it to the ground. Best I've accomplished was 4 consecutive 1.37's but that was on an exceptional weather day with exceptional prep. I've been told by someone I trust 100% that a car that routinely hits the 9's should have 60' in the 1.32-1.33 range. Its not been an easy task to accomplish with my torque monster big windsor and in my heavy car but that is where you will find the ET.
          Dennis

          65' STANG Street/Strip

          434W NA, Victor Heads, Super Vic Intake, Bullet SR, Braswell Carb, 11.2:1, Gforce 4 Spd, 4:56, 93 Octane Pump Gas pushing 3550lbs. 9.66@140.65

          Comment


          • #20
            What was the 660' time on the 10.11 pass?
            I agree once you get the sixty foot down, the ET will pick up a bunch. 133 mph is a lot for a 10.11 pass. If you would have just said it went 10.11 and didnt give any other details, I would have guessed 129-130 mph, maybe 128 depending on how hard it left. My quickest 1/4 mile pass in my car was a 9.97 (many many years ago), but only at 131 mph. It did go 1.32 sixty though.
            Rob Hetzler
            M&M member since Oct 2000, #773
            Roxboro Dragway 2011 Top ET champion

            My Photo Page

            Comment


            • #21
              I'll check my time slips tonight for the half track ET but the mph was 107.9. Just remember that as it a radio station we listen to, lol.

              So you both think it's all in my launch? I know it needs a lot of work but didn't realize it was thaaat far off. Time to get on these 28x10.5s.
              It's great having plenty of adjustment in the suspension but it's going to take a while get it dialed in.

              Thank guys!

              On a side note, have a B 4825 on it's way from Braswell. This things sucks to drive at part throttle, hope that fixes the situation. So far it been like a light switch.
              1965 Poppy Red Three Peddle Gear Banger
              347 Stock Block Pump Gas Street/Strip 10.44 @ 125.97 Old Combo
              363 Dart Block Pump Gas Street/Strip - 10.11 @ 133.17 so far

              2005 Torch Red Topless Three Peddle 12 valve Monster
              244 Stock Block Pump Gas Street /Street Much Slower


              Current CI Count - 104

              Comment


              • #22
                If I post my full suspension set-up, do you guys think you could offer suggestions on direction for change? Thought I knew my car but guess not.
                1965 Poppy Red Three Peddle Gear Banger
                347 Stock Block Pump Gas Street/Strip 10.44 @ 125.97 Old Combo
                363 Dart Block Pump Gas Street/Strip - 10.11 @ 133.17 so far

                2005 Torch Red Topless Three Peddle 12 valve Monster
                244 Stock Block Pump Gas Street /Street Much Slower


                Current CI Count - 104

                Comment


                • #23
                  You've changed your car with the new motor and a different strategy may now be needed. We can look at what you have now to see if anything really stands out but unfortunately each car will react differently--even with the same settings. It will be harder to get in the low 1.3's with a stick car than if it was an automatic.

                  It will take re-experimentation to find the sweet spot. If you can find someone to video the car during launch you will see what effect each change has. Even a Go Pro showing the rear suspension can help The cameras will show how the car reacts and one can spot things like things like the car unloads from 20' out. You might need to play with such things as launch RPM's, clutch settings, air pressure, etc. I would suggest loosening your front shocks all the way (if they are adjustable) and max out the extension on your rear shocks. If you have single adjustables (like Rancho's) dial them to the max and see how the car now goes down the track. Then back off the rear a click or 2 and test again. Always keep records of how the car reacts with each change.
                  Dennis

                  65' STANG Street/Strip

                  434W NA, Victor Heads, Super Vic Intake, Bullet SR, Braswell Carb, 11.2:1, Gforce 4 Spd, 4:56, 93 Octane Pump Gas pushing 3550lbs. 9.66@140.65

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Dennis112 View Post
                    It will take re-experimentation to find the sweet spot. .
                    That's what I am afraid of, lol. I took me years to get it to perform to what I thought was pretty good given the power the car had. I'll fire up the race pc when I get home and post what my last set-up was to see if anything sticks out to you guys.
                    1965 Poppy Red Three Peddle Gear Banger
                    347 Stock Block Pump Gas Street/Strip 10.44 @ 125.97 Old Combo
                    363 Dart Block Pump Gas Street/Strip - 10.11 @ 133.17 so far

                    2005 Torch Red Topless Three Peddle 12 valve Monster
                    244 Stock Block Pump Gas Street /Street Much Slower


                    Current CI Count - 104

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by kid vishus View Post
                      What was the 660' time on the 10.11 pass?
                      6.41 @107

                      1965 Poppy Red Three Peddle Gear Banger
                      347 Stock Block Pump Gas Street/Strip 10.44 @ 125.97 Old Combo
                      363 Dart Block Pump Gas Street/Strip - 10.11 @ 133.17 so far

                      2005 Torch Red Topless Three Peddle 12 valve Monster
                      244 Stock Block Pump Gas Street /Street Much Slower


                      Current CI Count - 104

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Last run car set-up

                        Weight 3,070

                        Front Tires 32 psi Rear 11.25 psi

                        Launch 5,700 rpm

                        Advanced Clutch 9.5 turns

                        Cal-tracks
                        Left Right
                        .5 Turns 1 Turn

                        Front shocks - Viking Crusaders DA
                        Left Right
                        1 rebound 1 Rebound
                        12 Extension 12 Extension

                        Rear shocks - Strange DA
                        Left Right
                        5 Rebound 6 Rebound
                        8 Extension 8 Extension
                        1965 Poppy Red Three Peddle Gear Banger
                        347 Stock Block Pump Gas Street/Strip 10.44 @ 125.97 Old Combo
                        363 Dart Block Pump Gas Street/Strip - 10.11 @ 133.17 so far

                        2005 Torch Red Topless Three Peddle 12 valve Monster
                        244 Stock Block Pump Gas Street /Street Much Slower


                        Current CI Count - 104

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Dennis112 View Post
                          You've changed your car with the new motor and a different strategy may now be needed. We can look at what you have now to see if anything really stands out but unfortunately each car will react differently--even with the same settings. It will be harder to get in the low 1.3's with a stick car than if it was an automatic.

                          It will take re-experimentation to find the sweet spot. If you can find someone to video the car during launch you will see what effect each change has. Even a Go Pro showing the rear suspension can help The cameras will show how the car reacts and one can spot things like things like the car unloads from 20' out. You might need to play with such things as launch RPM's, clutch settings, air pressure, etc. I would suggest loosening your front shocks all the way (if they are adjustable) and max out the extension on your rear shocks. If you have single adjustables (like Rancho's) dial them to the max and see how the car now goes down the track. Then back off the rear a click or 2 and test again. Always keep records of how the car reacts with each change.
                          I agree with all of that.
                          I dont have a stick car, so I wont be any help. My big tire automatic car versus your car are two totally different animals.
                          Dont get frustrated too quick though. I mean, I changed camshafts, and after 5 weeks I ~may~ have finally figured out what it wants for fueling and timing.....and that was JUST A CAM CHANGE. You practically added 100 hp. Man, that's gonna take a bit to get the chassis tuned back in.
                          Rob Hetzler
                          M&M member since Oct 2000, #773
                          Roxboro Dragway 2011 Top ET champion

                          My Photo Page

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I'll offer my thoughts on your setup but remember I'm a 1 man band at the track and far from being an expert on the subject. I pretty much rely on my timeslips and what I feel in the seat of the pants during the run. Since I race with other stick cars (many with Racepacs I also pay attention on how there cars are setup and the effects of changes they make. One guy has a 70' Mustang (Caltracs, DA shocks, etc) and has had hell in getting it setup to run as consistently good as when it had lower HP. He invested in transducers for his shocks last year so he could see what happens during a run via a computer. He still struggled last year even though he could send the data to the provider of the kit and software to get advice--stick cars seem to have a mind of their own . . . .

                            Although 5700 rpm sounds decent for a launch, the higher the rpm you can launch and hook (meaning between 1 1/2 and 3 slick revolutions on the hit), the better the 60 should be and the car will have a better shift recovery.

                            A good rule of thumb for the 60'er is that for every tenth saved there is worth 2 tenths off the ET at the end of the 1/4 mile. That is why racer's dwell on that so much. 1.41's are decent for our old cars with Caltracs and a stick but you should always strive to make it better. Your car has the HP and is light so I'm sure that it can do even better.

                            I'd like to see more air in the slicks for going down the track (13-15lbs is less friction) but you'd have to make up the difference using the clutch and shock settings at launch. I'm familiar with the Crusaders but not the Strange DA's. How many total clicks of extension do they offer? Most stick cars work on the stiffer side (its almost impossible to use too much extension on them.) Then you use the front shocks to control weight transfer (which is increased by lessening the extension.) The front shocks are critical to getting the car to launch correctly.

                            There is probably a lot to gain in the clutch--I have to admit I am not familiar with yours but 9.5 turns sounds like a lot of clamping pressure (mine works out to somewhere close to 450lbs total at launch.) What size disk and is it and is it one of the sculptured flywheel models? What is the base pressure of the clutch and how many lbs do you add with each turn? Are you running any counterweight?

                            What your rear gear ratio and first gear ratio? How much does the motor drop the rpm during the 1-2 shift?

                            Was the track having structured races or was it T&T prepped?


                            Last edited by Dennis112; 05-11-2018, 08:45 AM.
                            Dennis

                            65' STANG Street/Strip

                            434W NA, Victor Heads, Super Vic Intake, Bullet SR, Braswell Carb, 11.2:1, Gforce 4 Spd, 4:56, 93 Octane Pump Gas pushing 3550lbs. 9.66@140.65

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              The Strange DA's have 12 clicks for both rebound and extension.

                              As far as the clutch, it came with a pressure graph and I can grab it tonight. I had it softer but my first couple hits where real soft and the 60' picked up from a 1.47 to the 1.41 when I put a turn and a half in it. It's a single 10" with a sculpted lightweight flywheel. I am running 20 grams of counter weight (1" aluminum 1/4 bolt with aluminum lock nut)

                              4.86 rear gear, 3.06 1st, drops about 1,400 during the first shift.

                              Here was my plan for next weekend but after your post I may do the opposite. I was going to leave the clutch alone, lower the launch to 4800 - 5000 to get a light spin and start from the beginning. Thinking back to how I had the car set-up with the 347, that's a pretty dumb idea. I should be launching much higher than peak torque (5,700) and let the engine drag down into peak power if I can slip the clutch enough to keep the slicks hook'd, not? Think I should add more extension to the rear?
                              1965 Poppy Red Three Peddle Gear Banger
                              347 Stock Block Pump Gas Street/Strip 10.44 @ 125.97 Old Combo
                              363 Dart Block Pump Gas Street/Strip - 10.11 @ 133.17 so far

                              2005 Torch Red Topless Three Peddle 12 valve Monster
                              244 Stock Block Pump Gas Street /Street Much Slower


                              Current CI Count - 104

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Poppy65 View Post
                                The Strange DA's have 12 clicks for both rebound and extension.

                                As far as the clutch, it came with a pressure graph and I can grab it tonight. I had it softer but my first couple hits where real soft and the 60' picked up from a 1.47 to the 1.41 when I put a turn and a half in it. It's a single 10" with a sculpted lightweight flywheel. I am running 20 grams of counter weight (1" aluminum 1/4 bolt with aluminum lock nut)

                                4.86 rear gear, 3.06 1st, drops about 1,400 during the first shift.

                                Here was my plan for next weekend but after your post I may do the opposite. I was going to leave the clutch alone, lower the launch to 4800 - 5000 to get a light spin and start from the beginning. Thinking back to how I had the car set-up with the 347, that's a pretty dumb idea. I should be launching much higher than peak torque (5,700) and let the engine drag down into peak power if I can slip the clutch enough to keep the slicks hook'd, not? Think I should add more extension to the rear?


                                I don't think I'd backtrack to the old setup as you have decent times now for a new combo. Need to do a little tinkering with the settings though which certainly includes the clutch.

                                That sounds like a lot of drop during a shift. Your probably using the clutch-are you leaving off the gas too?

                                You will need to soften it up so that it slips a little at launch (as I indicated above) and during a shift. Adjustments are typically made in 1/4 turn increments and that can make the difference. A full turn is a huge change even though on paper it might look like "only" 125lbs. I don't know what your 9.5 turns equates to pressure wise but I can tell you that it is not uncommon for fellow racers to be running 300-800 max base. Mine is in the 450lb range on race day.

                                Something you may not know is that a higher launch RPM equates to less slippage due to increased heat being generated and the counterweights coming into play. Perhaps take a 1/2 turn out and see what happens. I use counterweight to help lock the clutch after a shift in 3rd and 4th. A little slippage is still desirable then to cut down on RPM drop.

                                Are you running a racing tire in the front or a common street radial? I'd like to see more air there.

                                If I was in your shoes, I'd set the front shocks to the least amount of extension and the rear's to 12. Compression in the rear doesn't really matter so pick something in the middle of the range. I'd probably set the front to mid range too. Take 1/2 turn of base out of the clutch. Set tire pressure to 12-13lbs and keep your RPM's at 5700 for now. From then work the clutch and tire pressures to try to get it to hook and not crush the rear slicks. Primarily I'd work the clutch to find its range vs changing air pressure for now. If the clutch slips, either raise the rpms or take out a little clutch. If it seems to work, take out another 1/4 to 1/2 a turn.
                                Dennis

                                65' STANG Street/Strip

                                434W NA, Victor Heads, Super Vic Intake, Bullet SR, Braswell Carb, 11.2:1, Gforce 4 Spd, 4:56, 93 Octane Pump Gas pushing 3550lbs. 9.66@140.65

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X