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Help me decide. 11lb or 16 lbs low tension oil rings

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  • Help me decide. 11lb or 16 lbs low tension oil rings

    I like the new forum! Excellent!

    Going back to my previous post on the old site, I'd like to use low tension rings, but I honestly am not sure which ones to use. Thanks for all of your comments up to this point. I was ready to go with 16lb rings conservatively, but then I hear how new OEM engines use 8-11 lb oil rings so now i'm not sure again. Here are my choices that i'm considering:

    1. 16lb "Low Tension" Total Seal oil rings

    2. 11lb "Gold Power" Total Seal oil rings

    3. I found a procedure for adjusting the tension on an oil ring expander by carefully bending the tabs until the desired tension is obtained. Can't bend 'em too much cause they still have to butt together, but you can bend 'em some. This should probably be done even if I do #1 or #2 above to equalize each ring anyhow, but I could do #3 alone without buying more rings because I have a set of Sealed Power moly w/ standard tension oil rings at home already.

    Help me out here 'cause I just don't know which tension to select. I don't want to be too conservative or too liberal and end up with a decision I regret. I've got it apart so i've got an opportunity to do something here.

    The car will be taken to a road course a few times a year and the RPMs will be 7000 max. More engine specs are in my sig.

    Thanks
    Tracy Blackford
    Anaheim Hills, CA
    '65 "Black" Ford Fastback. 331 custom built with 289 H beam rods and 383W piston, 282S cam, '70 351W self ported 1.94/1.60 heads, Hurricane Single Plane and 750 HP. T5z and 9" w/3.50s. Approaching 400 RWHP @ 6500. Mostly street, but also frequent a local road course throughout the year.

    '65 Fastback

  • #2
    Here's a re-post of the one I made on the other forum. It seems, for the lower tension rings to work in a street application, they need a thinner radial wall thickness (inside diameter to outside diameter) to be compliant enough to adequately follow the cylinder wall with the reduced tension.

    Barry Rabotnik, who worked for Federal Mogul as an Engineer for a long time, and who has competed in the Engine Masters series the last few years had this to say on another message board....

    Try to get oil rings with a reduced radial wall thickness - roughly .155 versus the normal .210. This is the measurement from inside diameter to outside. The reduction in radial wall allows the ring to better conform to the bore requiring less tension. This strategy is used on all newer engines. The LS1 and 4.6 run between 8 and 11 lbs for 100,000 miles...

    And as long as we are on the subject of piston rings, Joe Sherman left some advice about the top rings and gas ports. He recommended reduced radial wall thinckness and tighter clearances top to bottom when using gas ports. The tighter clearance seals the ring better, keeping the pressure from the gas ports from escaping, and the reduced radial wall thickness makes the ring more compliant to the cylinder.

    Barry R. can provide a lot of these specialty parts for those who are interested. http://www.survivalmotorsports. Give him a call, he's a GREAT guy to work with. He was able to supply me with a set of long discontinued 0.020" 3/4 groove FE engine bearings not too long ago.

    Good Luck!
    http://webpages.charter.net/hotrods/n2oMike.jpg

    Mike Burch
    1966 Mustang, Toploader 4-speed
    Pump Gas Flat Tappet 302, 10.134 @ 134.71
    http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

    Comment


    • #3
      Based on your stated intended usage, neither.

      You would be better served with a standard tension Sealed Power/Speed Pro oil ring.
      sigpic

      Alex Denysenko
      Co-Administrator

      NHRA/IHRA/NMCA member and licensed Superstock driver
      NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder 99','00,'01,'02,'03,'04,'05 & '06
      First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
      First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
      5 time IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
      Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

      The Barry of BarrysGrrl

      Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
      Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
      Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
      Quote #4: "Go fast or go home!"
      Quote#5:" No Brag,Just Fact!"
      www.moneymakerracing.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Does anybody have an idea of just how much of a horsepower gain you would get from low tension rings? I can't believe it would be all that much, but in an engine built for racing only every little bit helps.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mark Ugrich View Post
          Does anybody have an idea of just how much of a horsepower gain you would get from low tension rings? I can't believe it would be all that much, but in an engine built for racing only every little bit helps.
          Mark, I really don't think it's that much of a horsepower difference regarding any ring package. Itís just not that much to make a difference between them. It's more of a longevity issue between the different types of rings and cylinder walls.

          IMHO, youíre not really going to gain that much power using either one. Itís more of a wear issue and cylinder wall sealing. I still believe that the low tension Seal Power file fit performance rings will do everything that you need. The regular low tension rings are easy on the cylinder walls, but getting too low tension might be an issue as well, why chance it if you can use something that's been working for years.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mark Ugrich View Post
            Does anybody have an idea of just how much of a horsepower gain you would get from low tension rings? I can't believe it would be all that much, but in an engine built for racing only every little bit helps.
            The absolute key to making great HP, not good, but GREAT is sealing the motor.
            Round bores, concentric pistons, and a killer ring package will accomplish that.
            The oil rings are basically along for the ride when all the above is accomplished.
            To answer your question, based on our own actual dyno tests, about 10 HP in the 8,000 RPM range..
            sigpic

            Alex Denysenko
            Co-Administrator

            NHRA/IHRA/NMCA member and licensed Superstock driver
            NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder 99','00,'01,'02,'03,'04,'05 & '06
            First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
            First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
            5 time IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
            Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

            The Barry of BarrysGrrl

            Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
            Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
            Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
            Quote #4: "Go fast or go home!"
            Quote#5:" No Brag,Just Fact!"
            www.moneymakerracing.com

            Comment


            • #7
              There's no doubt that round bores and accurate machining are required to create an excellent ring seal.I remember reading a while back that Bob Glidden never used an engine stand because it pulled the two rear cylinders out of round.

              Comment

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