Brought to you by:

Twenty Years!
.
The best source of parts, bar none!

Click here to see a list of our Supporters.
  • If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

opinons wanted....

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • opinons wanted....

    on this refreshed cleveland.......

    351C stroked to 404
    block was stress relieved,align honed,square decked,bored/honed with plates
    10.1 compression for pump gas
    4010 bore x 4.0 stroke
    2V heads with hardened seats, competition valve job with bowl porting
    JE pistons
    balanced Scat rods / crank
    Predator Cams street roller with Crower roller lifters
    246/[email protected] .641/.650 net lift 108 lobe seperation
    Crane Gold roller rockers, 1.73 ratio
    Manley stainless valves, pushrods @ retainers
    Edelbrock performer RPM air gap intake
    ARP head @ main studs
    Canton T sump oil pan
    MSD read to run distributor
    dyno numbers are 506 hp @ 6300 rpm 503 tq @ 4500 rpm 453 tq @ 3500 rpm

    crank,rods & pistons are used, everything else is new.

    would you run this on the street & take a 6 hour or more ride with this set up ?

    Thanks, Keith
    Last edited by blue34; 08-10-2019, 12:48 PM.
    34 FORD coupe...Cleveland POWERED https://mustangsandmore.vbulletin.ne...ilies/cool.png

    it`s nice to be important but it is more important to be nice.

    Keith

  • #2
    Sure, sounds like fun , why not ?

    Comment


    • #3
      well I am concerned that the cam is a bit big with that much lift for the street & he has not yet given me the duration number.
      this will see 98% street use with some overnight travel and a tad bit of Friday evening run at the strip.....

      Keith
      34 FORD coupe...Cleveland POWERED https://mustangsandmore.vbulletin.ne...ilies/cool.png

      it`s nice to be important but it is more important to be nice.

      Keith

      Comment


      • #4
        that motor will be a bit soggy out of the hole, but the mid range up is going to be beastly. and it will come on hard. if you get this motor, i would start saving for a set of edelbrock 3V heads. they have the smaller 2V ports, with the 4V closed chambers. the closed chamber heads will make the motor more detonation resistant. however you will want to run the numbers and make sure the compression ratio is within reason.

        as to whether i would drive this motor long distances, yes i would, especially if it was mostly freeway driving, or if you have steep gears and en overdrive transmission. no need to roll down the freeway at 3000 rpm at 65mph.
        64 falcon
        66 mustang
        76 el camino

        a man's fate is a man's fate
        and life is but an illusion

        Comment


        • #5
          10.1 sounds a bit high with the junk gas we get now, I'd think about 9.1 might be a touch better? I guess it would work with a cam that bleeds off some of that compression on the overlap. But I haven't built a custom motor in probably 20 years, lots of things have changed since then, and I've forgotten most of what I knew back then....
          ----1999 F150 XLT Lariat Super Cab 4X4 5.4----
          -----1947 Lincoln Zephyr Coupe 5.0-----
          -----2005 Expedition Eddie Bauer 5.4----
          " Sometimes you fix the car, sometimes the car fixes you" Steve L.

          "Do not let anyone tell you it cannot be done. No challenge can match the heart and fight and spirit of America". President Donald J. Trump

          Comment


          • #6
            Years ago I ran a solid flat tappet cam that was not quite that big in a 357 inch motor with 4v heads, and it was a tire roaster with a 3500 converter. 400 inches and 2v heads with that cam you spec'ed should have plenty of torque down low. I think the HP number might be a bit optimistic though with 2v heads, especially if they've only had bowl work done to them. They just dont flow much air.
            I wouldn't hesitate to drop that combo in a street car. You might have to find the sweet spot on timing for today's gas, but it should be more than doable.
            Rob Hetzler
            M&M member since Oct 2000, #773
            Roxboro Dragway 2011 Top ET champion

            My Photo Page

            Comment


            • #7
              My two questions are 4.010 bore? It’s great that they’ll clean up with just a.010 boring, but where do you get the pistons, are they custom? I thought off the shelf stuff was .020, .030, .040, or .060”

              and are you going to use rocker stud girdles to help the valvetrain keep up with that lift on long trips? With my Clevelands, that’s always been my weak spot even with much less lift than that.
              '70 Mach 1 - '72 Sprint - '94 F-150 XL -'97 E-150 - '18 Edge SEL AWD

              My Mach's restoration progress
              My Sprint's restoration progress
              ”Mercy for the guilty is cruelty to the innocent.” ~ Adam Smith

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks Steve, I had not thought of that.....

                Keith
                34 FORD coupe...Cleveland POWERED https://mustangsandmore.vbulletin.ne...ilies/cool.png

                it`s nice to be important but it is more important to be nice.

                Keith

                Comment


                • #9
                  This engine has custom pistons & the duration is 242 for the intake and 256 for the exhaust. It also has 7/16 size rocker arm studs which the builder says that is strong enough as he has run similar combos with no problems. the hp number is from a dyno run. He says max rpm is 6700. My current engine runs 2800 rpm at 65 mph with the FMX and 3:73 gears. Any ideas as to what this other engine would do at the same speed?
                  34 FORD coupe...Cleveland POWERED https://mustangsandmore.vbulletin.ne...ilies/cool.png

                  it`s nice to be important but it is more important to be nice.

                  Keith

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Duration is one thing, but what I’m seeing is your .641 and .650 lift figures. What I look at is how much movement the valve stem has in the valve guide. Stock engines that have long lives usually have lifts in the .350-.450 range. Performance engines for street use usually have .500-.550 range. Increasing lift has dramatic power increases, but it also has adverse effect on longevity, not so much that the valve stems are moving a greater distance but more by the fact that at higher lifts the increased stress on the sides of the stem/guide contact area can increase guide wear because as the valve stem moves down more the angle of the rocker arm tip changes. It’s very important to make sure the sweep the rocker arm tip is minimized so that the valve stem moves down as straight as possible. Increased lift also puts more strain on the rocker arm.

                    When I started building my Cleveland engines, I experienced bent pushrods and broken rocker arms and I even dropped a valve twice. The first time I blamed it on the two piece valve stems stock Ford valves have, the second time I used Manley one piece, single groove valves and that time I thought I had dropped a keeper due to valve float. An old engine machinist I knew showed me how to check the rocker arm sweep at the top of the valve and I found it was far from perfect. Engines with canted valves like the 351c and the big block Chevy have that common problem, because they don’t have straight up and down valves and you start out with tough geometry to begin with. I cured my valve train failure problem by switching to roller rockers and setting the valve sweep very carefully, checking them with a marker to make sure the wear pattern is as straight as centered as I could make it.

                    Mind you, the biggest lifts I ever used were .560” and I had that problem. I always felt that if I was going to use higher lifts, in addition to watching the sweep carefully, I was going to need rocker stud girdles to make sure the sweep stayed where I needed.

                    Just something to consider, I know Kid V uses big lifts on his Clevelands and I’d love to hear if he experienced this, although his is a dedicated race car and I was trying to make my street engines last 10-15k miles.
                    '70 Mach 1 - '72 Sprint - '94 F-150 XL -'97 E-150 - '18 Edge SEL AWD

                    My Mach's restoration progress
                    My Sprint's restoration progress
                    ”Mercy for the guilty is cruelty to the innocent.” ~ Adam Smith

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks Steve. I am concerned about the lift as none of my friends run a engine with that much lift & I want longevity besides performance.
                      the more I think about it the more I believe I will pass on it......................

                      Keith
                      34 FORD coupe...Cleveland POWERED https://mustangsandmore.vbulletin.ne...ilies/cool.png

                      it`s nice to be important but it is more important to be nice.

                      Keith

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        ...or... If it’s a well built engine and you don’t want to pass on the deal, you could always swap the cam for something more suited to your use.

                        I noticed I didn’t answer the second part of your question about how it would run in your car with your current gear ratio. That cam is designed to make it’s power at higher RPM, so with 3.73 gears it would feel kind of sluggish in city driving but start to really come alive once you hit higher speeds but by then you’re flying. The duration will be low on vacuum signal so you’ll find the carb hard to tune and the gas mileage really poor.

                        I think you’d be much happier with the cam I plan on buying, the one Alex used to recommend, the Comp Cam 270HR. It’s duration is 215 which gives it good manners and tunability, and the .566” lift will give us the healthy lope we car guys like. You can even reuse your roller lifters on your new cam if they are in good condition, and you could sell the old cam to recoup some of your cost.

                        https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-32-421-8
                        '70 Mach 1 - '72 Sprint - '94 F-150 XL -'97 E-150 - '18 Edge SEL AWD

                        My Mach's restoration progress
                        My Sprint's restoration progress
                        ”Mercy for the guilty is cruelty to the innocent.” ~ Adam Smith

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Steve, thank you so much. you confirmed what 2 other die hard hot rodders have told me after looking at this engine list.
                          I really do not want to go for another converter nor do I want to give up to much in the mileage department.

                          I also talked to a rep from Comp Cams & after telling him what I have and what I what performance wise he suggested the 284HR or the 290HR
                          due to my having the Blue Thunder dual plane intake & full length headers with the 3:73 rear.

                          I am still open for suggestions, I may even get a crate motor. I am still researching.........and need all the help I can get .

                          Keith
                          34 FORD coupe...Cleveland POWERED https://mustangsandmore.vbulletin.ne...ilies/cool.png

                          it`s nice to be important but it is more important to be nice.

                          Keith

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Apples and oranges, but the last 302 I built I put a Crane 272-2 in it, about the same as the 270 Steve mentioned. It had a .512 lift, a good lope at idle with a stock converter and pulled real hard from just above idle through midrange, just where you will be running most of the time. Oh, I was running a peg leg 2.79 rear end with 26" tall tires.
                            ----1999 F150 XLT Lariat Super Cab 4X4 5.4----
                            -----1947 Lincoln Zephyr Coupe 5.0-----
                            -----2005 Expedition Eddie Bauer 5.4----
                            " Sometimes you fix the car, sometimes the car fixes you" Steve L.

                            "Do not let anyone tell you it cannot be done. No challenge can match the heart and fight and spirit of America". President Donald J. Trump

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              But, if you go with a 4 inch stroke like in the original post, that thing is gonna be 400 inches, and thats going to make the cam seem smaller to the motor.
                              Rob Hetzler
                              M&M member since Oct 2000, #773
                              Roxboro Dragway 2011 Top ET champion

                              My Photo Page

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X